Tsk tsk, Fisk Fisk
Yawn. Happy hibernating and all that. I am almost as inconsistent at reading blogs as I am at posting, but I’ve been catching up with my RSS today, and I’m riled. Heresy Corner usually fails to strike a chord with me, and I’m loath to remove it entirely from the RSS, but it’s definitely now on my internal monologue equivalent of a final warning.
The first thing that piqued me about it was the fact the bottom of every RSS article from the Heresy Corner feed bears the sinister warning “© 2009 Heresy Corner, all rights reserved”. Vive la creative commons! – there’s nothing quite like that disclaimer for saying “I’m too good for all this new media malarky – I’m holding out for the book deal”. I’m not really digging the self-styled iconoclasm either, especially not when one of your major targets is the bogeyman fish barrel of religion and ‘superstition’ – edgy stuff indeed. Never mind, I’m aware that my complaints are mostly just a matter of taste, as is the fact that Ghostery shows 8 separate tracking systems on it – there are some much more interesting bits and pieces on there.
However, the snowy weather has not been kind on the Heresiarch’s ability vis a vis incoherent thought. First of all he coughed up a repetition of the UK commentariat’s most tired cliché – ‘Aren’t these weathermen useless’? The meat of the post referred to a comment posted on the Daily Mail website by someone claiming to work for the Met Office, and pulling apart the three sentence description of their methodology therein. Plenty of blog posts are indistinguishable from typing up whatever ill-informed conversations the author has overheard in the toilets of their local pub, and I generally file such rubbish under ‘ignore’. However, in the context of a renewed right-wing push to discredit climate science, and the accompanying comments by Heresiarch, this banal fare becomes much more pernicious:
Of course. I’m passing no comment here about the climate science, except to say that the more I hear it proclaimed in ever shriller tones that the science is settled, the less I believe it. I used to think the science was settled. I now merely think that there are a lot of people who think that it ought to be settled, which isn’t the same thing at all.
There is plenty to take issue with here, but I shall move on to more egregious matters, pausing only to note that if you really want to blog about the weather, you probably ought to make a bit of an effort to understand it. Things might be a bit more complicated than you realise, hmmm?
The really appalling piece of gibberish from Heresy Corner (think of it as the part of the classroom where they give you a special pointy hat) came on Thursday, in the guise of a ‘Guest Post‘ from ‘The Pedant General’ of Devil’s Kitchen (What is it with bloggers and their pompous nicknames? Hello? We are nerds in our bedrooms – enough with the airs and graces!). It is a horrible example of how little FUD the climate change deniers need to spread in order to stymie public action on complex scientific matters. I bet it takes me longer to counter it (lacking, as I do, immediate access to the correct scientific data, and only a passing knowledge of proper climate science blogs) than it did for it to be written in the first place.
Most of us simply lack the time and specialist knowledge to disprove their bullshit, and for many people climate denial suits their prejudices and political persuasion, and they won’t even seek it out. Think of the Pedant General as an intelligent human being who has swallowed just enough bullshit from various sources to convince himself that there isn’t a problem, and that the solutions will make things worse, in line with his political leanings.
In a comment on the earlier thread inspired by the Met Office’s inaccurate predictions of a warm winter, Sue R asked: Why are people so keen to deny global warming?
That entirely misses the point.
The fact that we are noticeably warmer than we were 5, 50 or 150 years ago is not remotely interesting. We were and are emerging from a (non-man made) little ice age.
The vital question is whether we are warmer than we were 1000 years ago, and that is very definitely not settled science in any way shape or form.
And… even if we are warmer than we were 1000 years ago (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is denied – the historical record is pretty clear that it was indeed significantly warmer – one reason the science isn’t settled BTW), it is not at all clear whether this change is man-made to any really significant degree.
OK, so first of all – no links, no evidence, just assertion. Cheers. It’s actually extremely interesting if we are warmer than 150 years ago, considering the small matter of industrialisation. But the claim here is that we should be looking at longer terms trends and whether we are warmer than 1,000 years ago. So lets:

Temperature trends in past centuries and the so-called hockey stick
The graph is from RealClimate.org, which is well worth reading for the extra information, especially the comments (and other pages here, here and here). Basically it shows the reconstructed data on long term climactic variation from various sources and methodologies, and against several computer simulations – it’s Northern Hemisphere data, incidentally.
The different coloured lines show the trends suggested by the different studies, and the grey areas show the different outer limits for the uncertainty on two of the studies (Mann & Jones and Man et al). If we go back to the year 1000 all of them are below the 1961-1990 baseline, with the possible exception of the green line (Mann et al). The green line is crossing the baseline around that point, heading steeply downwards – the previous short spike above the baseline is the only time it rises above it in the whole series.
The outer limits of uncertainty do show that it’s possible that the temperature in the past may have been above the baseline, but the likely trends are universally below the baseline, as are all the other data series, except for a brief spike in the yellow line (Crowley and Lowery) around 1200, and the early progress of the Bauer et al simulation. None of the data trends, or the extremities of uncertainty exceed 0.4 above the baseline prior to the era of industrialisation. Our current position is significantly above +0.4. The long term data does show us emerging from the ‘little ice age’ in the mid 19th century but it also shows a completely anomalous rise beyond previous norms. We are much warmer than we were 1,000 years ago, and the Pedant General is talking bollocks. And before you start, there’s a very good Hockey Stick Q&A here.
And, even if:
- we are warmer than we were 1000 years ago and
- we are causing it to some significant degree
it’s not at all clear that we are really able to influence it the other way
And, even if:
- we are warmer than we were 1000 years ago and
- we are causing it to some significant degree and
- we are really able to influence it the other way
it’s not at all clear that doing so is necessarily necessary. Do the benefits of warmer temperatures outweigh the costs? The historical record suggests that yes, they do. Humans do better when it’s warmer. The numbers dying of unseasonal cold far outstrip those dying of unseasonal heat.
Y’what? Y’WHAT? So “it’s not at all clear that we are really able to influence it the other way”. This witless assertion is so lacking in substantiating information that it’s very hard to dismantle. The mechanism by which CO2 makes the world warmer is such old hat that even I learned it in school. The correlation between CO2 and temperature is very well documented in Ice Core data, and the ‘lag’ is well explained. Essentially, other factors begin warming events (output of CO2 from the earth’s fauna & flora having been fairly static until the age of industrialisation), but this warming stimulated release of CO2 which then droves the warming even further.
Granted, if we don’t reduce emissions soon, the feedback loops (several of which involve the same CO2 release as in no-anthropocentric warming events), will reduce our ability to reverse this human-caused warming. But that is an argument for urgent action now, not for prevarication. As for the claim that the historical record suggests that “the benefits of warmer temperatures outweigh the costs” – this has got to be the most stupid claim of the lot. El General really hasn’t taken the time to understand what climate change means, has he? Cimate Change means more increased extreme weather events, disruption of the water cycle and decreased agricultural productivity, not sunglasses and the occasional hot flush. The 300,000-odd estimated deaths a year from climate change didn’t die of heat stroke.
And, even if:
- we are warmer than we were 1000 years ago and
- we are causing it to some significant degree and
- we are really able to influence it the other way and
- doing so is necessarily necessary and
- it’s more cost effective to try adapt the climate itself
it’s not at all clear that this indeed the best use of our money right now. There are (pace Lomborg) stacks of really actually pressing problems that would benefit mankind massively more proveably right now if a tiny tiny fraction of the sums being bandied about were to be devoted to them. Eradicating malaria for example.
Bjorn Fucking Lomberg. I should have known he’d hear from that twat sooner or later. Because of the feedback loops mentioned above, we have a window of effectiveness after which we will not be able to lower average global temperatures by reducing our carbon emissions, and will be locked into a much greater warming event. This means we don’t get to wait around until it’s a bit too warm for our comfort, and then start to do something about the problem.
Lomberg’s major contribution to fiddling while Rome burns involved getting a load of economists into a room and getting them to assess a competition of global projects for the benefit of mankind, using a budget too small to make a difference to global warming. At $50 billion US, it was actually less than half the annual estimated costs of climate change. On the basis of that, global warming was deemed to not be cost effective, never mind what the real scientists said. I don’t think Dante was sufficiently forward thinking to reserve a place for hell for contrarians who look on global catastrophe as a chance to launch a career in denial punditry, but part of me wishes he had.
And, even if:
- we are warmer than we were 1000 years ago and
- we are causing it to some significant degree and
- we are really able to influence it the other way and
- doing so is necessarily necessary and
- it’s more cost effective to try adapt the climate itself and
- this is a better use of our money than any of the myriad other much better uses of our money
it’s not at all clear that the best way to do this is to subborn all our freedoms to a putative world government in the form of the monstrously corrupt UN who will then proceed to tax us all into oblivion in order to give all our money to the most corrupt and incompetent governments on the planet (who are more likely to squander or nick it rather than use it – incompetently – for whatever it was supposed to be for).
I quite agree, this would not be a very good course of action, even when stripped of the demented right-wing hysteria. We need something much more radical – centrally coordinated, but properly democratic and involving everyone. And fast.
Thus, Sue’s claim that “the weather/climate is changing and it is necessary for governments to act upon it ” is a monster fallacy of well known form:
- something must be done (which is denied)
- A is something (A is not shown to be effective)
- therefore A must be done (logical fallacy)
with the added knobs on that
- A must be done by the government.
Or is that akin to being a young earth creationist?
As its been quite well shown that something that tackles climate change really does need to be done, I think it’s not unreasonable for people to look to the existing political authorities to take action. Obviously, what is to be done, and by whom is a proper political debate, instead of this head in the sand bullshit, and I rather look forward to having it. And actually General, you’re much worse than a young earth creationist. They are considerably less harmless.
A very good piece, albeit marred by the needlessly peevish tone of the first paragraph. I notice there’s a copyright notice at the bottom of this page, too. What’s all that about? And what are these ghosties of which you speak? Where do they come from? Can I get rid of them? Yes I have adsense and google analytics and feedburner, but don’t most blogs?
Your substantive points are well made. I’m not seeking to promote any particular view; I ran the PG post – which was a summary of his views, which are set out in greater detail and with supporting documentation at the linked DK article, because I knew it would encourage debate. And it did, so I put it down as a great success. There’s a gap between “this is what the science is saying” and “this is what we have to do” that is the province of politics, not science, and since it’s not at all clear that the policies so far announced would make a huge difference, there’s a case for saying that it would be money not well spent. It seems to me that what you want is a global revolution. At Copenhagen, China and India made it quite clear that they weren’t going to go along with the agenda laid down by European politicians (which you probably think is far too little anyway) – in which case what the science says is less important than the question of what is to be done, given that.
I would be happy to run an edited version (ie with the opening crap taken out) of this piece, which deserves far more readers than it’s likely to get here.
Thanks, and good of you to take my rudeness so well. I hope I made it clear I was indulging my inner grump. I loved your Ian Blair post on Wednesday, incidentally. The trackers on your page are: Feedburner, Google Adsense & Analytics, Intense Debate, Quantcast, Site Meter, Tweetmeme, Twitter Badge. I tend not to trust sites with a stack of them, but I only block those with a clear commercial intent (Adsense & Quantcast on your blog). While we’re on the subject, I found I couldn’t leave a trackback or pingback with Intense debate, do you have them switched off?
Oh the embarrassment. I rather peevishly shot myself in the foot there. It was a feature of the WordPress theme that I didn’t really notice. Gone now, and I am suitably chastened. I do feel that ‘all rights reserved’ isn’t really in the spirit of blogging though, do you not?
Anyway, to substantive matters. I would be very glad for you to post an edited version on your site. I stand by my point that making the leap from bitching about the unpredictability of weather to harbouring doubts about climate science is daft. I’ve had a look through the longer DK article, and there’s still nothing of substance (though I’m a sucker for flow-charts too). The crux of his argument is here:
In other words, because all of the scientists have professional links and their work is informed by each other, they must be in league together in a great global conspiracy to distort global temperature records. This is Dan Brown fiction, not scientific critique. Incidentally, as RealClimate points out here, the data in the ‘Harry Read Me’ file is not the HadCRUT data, so actually the PG’s whole argument is shot. None of the people engaged in talking up ‘climategate’ are remotely interested in actually finding out the scientific context, or attempting to engage with the data, they just want to muddy the waters enough to prevent action.
The main thrust of my argument is that to stimulate ‘debate’ about the science at this juncture places you somewhere on a continuum between irresponsibility, and extreme malevolence. That isn’t an attack on anyone’s freedom of speech, or to shut up people who have uncomfortable truths to articulate, honestly. For over a decade proper political action onthis issue has, particularly in the US, been prevented by a vocal and well funded lobby whose only purpose has been to portray the science as less fixed than it actually is. They make no attempt to really engage with the science holistically, only to snipe at little bits of it by distortion, outright lies and highlighting the few remaining areas where there are uncertainties.
Obviously it is bad democracy to blindly trust the scientific authorities to know what’s best for us, but if people want to debate the issue, I think they really need to put in the hard graft necessary to understand and critique the science in a meaningful manner. Unfortunately, for a complex issue such as this, the debate will necessarily be over the heads of most people, unless we’re going to have a very radical mass education programme right now.
The stakes are high, and the scientific opinion has come down squarely on one side – those of us who have better things to do with our lives than taking a crash course in climate science ought to trust them. Climategate was a well-timed and malicious leak with the most damming items highlighted in an attempt to undermine that trust. There are a few shocking things in there, but not enough to undermine an entire scientific discipline, and if you cleave to that opinion, you are being played. Simple as that.
Sure the policies so far announced will not make enough of a difference, but we need to do more, not less. In any case, surely the fact that the oil is going to run out means that we need to de-carbonise our economy anyway? For me doing it now and possibly saving the environment into the bargain is a no-brainer.
It’s a bit more complicated than that, and littered with caveats about non-violence and consent, but for our purposes, I’d settle for meaningful (inter) governmental action. I harbour serious doubts about the ability of liberal capitalism to deliver a fully sustainable zero-carbon economy, because of the necessary element of continued material growth – but I feel this is an issue for a different post. We don’t have the luxury of holding out for the perfect political system, what we need is for the existing political authorities to take action to cut carbon emissions now. While that process is beginning, we can continue to debate what our society should look like in 2050, given what the science tells us about the emissions cuts we need to make.
There is a huge issue of justice here, in that the industrialised world has primary responsibility for cumulative historical emissions, and that people living marginal lives in the developing world will mainly suffer the consequences, at least in the beginning. To decide that we should do nothing because our political system is not up to the job, or because cuts are politically unpalatable is morally indefensible. Anyhooo – I’m straying from my subject. Would you like me to edit the version of this for you, or are you happy to take it? It’s creative commons now, so you can
….I just had another poke around RealClimate, and found something on PG’s bullshit allegations that the entire edifice of the hockey stick graph is based on a single tree in Siberia. The list of graphs and description of the pattern of FUD being transmitted through the blogosphere from a handful of cranks is particularly instructive.
I stayed away from RealClimate for ages because I found it impenetrable for ages, which is a shame. You need to get to work with the search function, as most of the posts assume a lot of knowledge from the beginning, so you need to find the most introductory post on the subject you’re interested in. Perseverance pays off though – it’s an amazing resource.
Re your 300,000 deaths, you should look beyond linking to Kofi Annan’s pension pot NGO:
“As discovered by Mark Bahner, and reported on Roger Pielke Jr’s blog, the GHF took these [the WHOs] statistics and doubled them.”
http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html
There’s much more there including the 607,000 dying each year from inactivity.
As for your use of the temperature reconstruction, you cleary have no idea except for what you’re scraping from RealClimate. This curve is the subject of the “hide the decline” quote as you can see if you look to the right hand side of the curve where lines get truncated. If the proxies don’t accurately reflect late 20th C temperature, then why should they be trusted for the whole of the last 1000 years?
I said 300,000-odd because I didn’t take it to be an exact figure. The Pielke blog is interesting (and scathing), but he certainly doesn’t ‘report’ that Baher ‘discovered’ the figure had simply been doubled. What Pielke actually says is:
I kind of think that Mark Bahner is being as speculative as anyone here. The interesting meat in the Pielke post, is the difficulty of coming up with such figures, as climate change is generally an indirect, rather than a direct cause of mortality – not to mention that in a chaotic system such as the climate, it is meaningless to attempt to distinguish between weather events caused by climate change and those that would happen anyway. I would be very interested in hearing the WHO researchers reasons for their estimates of the proportion of different types of mortality where climate change is an indirect causal factor – Pielke seems to think that they discovered them on the back of a fag packet, but I’m withholding judgement.
Incidentally, Pielke’s sourcewatch page is interesting, especially the article discussion. He is listed as a political scientist, not a climate specialist, or as having any authority in matters of public health. He has crossed swords with the editor over his listing, and seems to have over-represented the amount of peer-reviewed articles he has published. His father is also listed as a noted climate change sceptic. So far, so ad hominem – I mention it only to point out that Pielke is not a disinterested authority who has simply discovered egregious practices in the GHF’s calculations.
Anyhoo – this stuff is classic GW denial – sniping at individual elements, in the hope of distracting attention away from a larger point. Let’s summarise the two significant points here. Firstly, climate change will kill people by increasing mortality in all the areas highlighted by the WHO (whose practices were then followed by the GHF and Save the Children – target of Pielke’s ire). Secondly that as average temperatures rise, its role as a causal factor will increase. However shoddy the GHF has been, these two points are hardly challenged by their practices. You could argue, as Pielke does, that if we cannot come up with certain figures, we shouldn’t be discussing figures at all, but I find arguments of that sort rather uncompelling. When you strip away much of the ornamentation, they tend to be fig-leafs for a desperate desire to put off change until some indeterminate point in the future when we’re all cooked, but at least we agree on why.
Waving the 607,000 deaths around as an excuse for inaction on climate change is nonsense, firstly because the deaths partially caused by climate change will rise in the future, but our window of effective action may be closed by the time it becomes the most significant factor. Secondly – did I miss the meeting where we decided we are only morally obliged to tackle the most severe preventable global health problems, one-by-one in strict sequence, in descending order of magnitude? I find the spectre of libertarians pretending to care about the ravages of global poverty as a means of dissembling about the need for action on climate change deeply repugnant.
And actually, I have rather more of an idea about the temperature reconstruction than you seem to. Granted, much of it is taken from RealClimate, who also oblige with a long series of 10 different Hockey Stick graphs without your precious Yamal tree ring data. They all bear a striking similarity to the original – the point being that if all your data is forming into patterns, and the patterns all seem to agree with each other….then probably the data is telling you something. You have multiple other proxies to choose from, and they all point to the Yamal divergence being an anomaly. To inflate that into the claim that the “proxies don’t accurately reflect late 20th C temperature” shows what the issue is here, and I’m afraid the problem is not in the science.